In an interview with Tiffany Meirer of NTD, Frank Gaffney argues that Tehran’s leadership remains committed to its long-standing anti-American agenda and would use any pause in hostilities to rearm, regroup, and claim victory. Gaffney says the only lasting way to end the conflict is through the complete defeat of the regime, not another temporary arrangement or ceasefire.
He also cautions that Iran would almost certainly continue pursuing nuclear weapons, threatening shipping in the Strait of Hormuz, and destabilizing its neighbors if allowed to survive in its current form. Gaffney contends that extending diplomacy without resolution would embolden not only Iran, but also other jihadist movements and state backers such as China, Russia, and Pakistan.
BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:
[00:00:00] Tiffany Meier: And joining me now with more is Frank Gaffney, president of the Institute for the American Future. Frank, thank you so much for joining us. It’s always great to have you.
Now, you’ve said that any MOU like the one on Trump’s desk would be humiliating to accept because it would be shortsighted. What are those long-term losses you think Americans would face?
[00:00:20] Frank Gaffney: I believe that the nature of this regime — and it’s more of the Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps regime than the mullahs of the past — is that it is determined to continue to do what it has boasted, professed, and maintained as a policy since its inception, and that is to bring death to America.
I believe that it would be most shortsighted for the president now to accept a further suspension of the only thing that is going to bring an [00:01:00] actual end to this endless war — 47 years of it, arguably going back to Muhammad’s time 1,400 years — and that is a decisive victory.
And that would be possible, I believe, if the pressure is maintained and if we stop the resupply that is taking place with the help of the Chinese, to some extent others, notably the Pakistanis.
I have supported this president. I think he was absolutely right to engage in Epic Fury. I think he was absolutely right to call for the Iranian people to achieve the liberation of their country. I think he’s been absolutely right to blockade the strait. All of those are eminently sensible and necessary measures.
We just need, as your correspondent talked about, to finish the job. And if we do otherwise — if we let the pressure up, if we allow them months more to [00:02:00] rearm, months more to boast about their victory over us, months more to humiliate our country — this doesn’t alter where this is ultimately going to go.
I think the president is going to have to use military force decisively, I believe with Israel, to achieve the only thing that will end the endless war, and that is the defeat, the utter defeat, of the regime in Iran, not its perpetuation.
[00:02:29] Tiffany Meier: And Frank, Treasury Secretary Bessent said that the president wouldn’t even be reviewing a deal unless it included his so-called hard lines. Now, do you think Iran is willing to agree to those on paper, open up the strait and so forth, and then just go back to doing everything they had been doing?
[00:02:47] Frank Gaffney: It’s a certitude that the Iranians will do all of the bad things that they’ve been doing. It is a certitude that they will continue to beaver away at nuclear weapons.
I also think they will try to buy them, for heaven’s sake. They don’t [00:03:00] have to build them from scratch. There are people who will sell them to them.
I think it is absolutely predictable that they will also interfere with traffic in the strait. I mean, they were starting to mine it the other day, for goodness’ sake, and that was during these negotiations. Imagine what they would do afterwards.
The time that we allow them to buy, Tiffany, will be used to make more difficult, more dangerous, and more costly the inevitable steps that you have to take because of the nature of this regime. It is a Sharia-supremacist regime. It is an apocalyptic one at that.
It will not accept anything other than, well, according to their end-times philosophy, the destruction of the world to usher in the golden age of Islam. That’s not the kind of outfit that you want to see stay in business and become bolder and more brazen in their [00:04:00] threats to us.
And by the way, one other detail: every other Sharia supremacist on the planet — jihadis, whatever you want to call them — will be emboldened as well. They’re looking at this as a signal victory for their team, whether they’re Sunni or Shia. They will see it as further evidence of our inevitable defeat, which they believe Allah is going to bless them with. We mustn’t indulge that.
[00:04:27] Tiffany Meier: And Frank, President Trump sounds willing to end the ceasefire himself if terms are no good. Here’s actually what Bessent said today.
[00:04:39] Media clip: Scott Bessent: We are being patient. We do not have unlimited patience. President Trump always prefers a peace deal, so everything we have done thus far has been defensive, and at present, that is what we will continue doing. But if President Trump doesn’t think he can get a peace deal, then kinetic is back—
[00:05:00] Tiffany Meier: Now, Gulf nations squarely in Iran’s line of fire seem to be a key reason for Trump’s insistence on diplomacy for now. What is your advice to Iran’s neighbors?
[00:05:12] Frank Gaffney: I think they’d better get a grip, because an Iranian regime that survives has already demonstrated its willingness to attack them. And it’s not just been bases that we have on their soil. They have gone after desalinization plants and other energy and electric-grid infrastructure.
They will continue to do that if the regime survives. They will do that because this, again, is likely to bring about, in their apocalyptic vision, the ushering in of the golden age with the return of the Mahdi, the Messiah figure.
This is a matter of time, and I’m simply saying to the president, with the greatest [00:06:00] of respect, don’t give the enemy more time. Because when you ultimately have to do what I think he has understood from the very beginning of this episode — eliminate the threat from Iran — it will be harder to do it later.
And will he decide to get out from a ceasefire if he’s not satisfied? Quite possibly. But the pressure on him to perpetuate it will be all the more intense, you can bet on it, especially if it’s still in the run-up to the midterms, when people are telling him, “Oh no, you can’t do that, Mr. President.”
And that, again, will further embolden our enemies and give the Chinese, the Russians, and the Pakistanis, and others, more time to restore and, in fact, greatly enhance the threat we face from Iran.
[00:06:56] Tiffany Meier: A lot at stake, for sure. Frank Gaffney, as always, thank you so much for joining [00:07:00] us.
[00:07:00] Frank Gaffney: It’s a pleasure. Thank you, ma’am.
He also cautions that Iran would almost certainly continue pursuing nuclear weapons, threatening shipping in the Strait of Hormuz, and destabilizing its neighbors if allowed to survive in its current form. Gaffney contends that extending diplomacy without resolution would embolden not only Iran, but also other jihadist movements and state backers such as China, Russia, and Pakistan.
BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:
[00:00:00] Tiffany Meier: And joining me now with more is Frank Gaffney, president of the Institute for the American Future. Frank, thank you so much for joining us. It’s always great to have you.
Now, you’ve said that any MOU like the one on Trump’s desk would be humiliating to accept because it would be shortsighted. What are those long-term losses you think Americans would face?
[00:00:20] Frank Gaffney: I believe that the nature of this regime — and it’s more of the Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps regime than the mullahs of the past — is that it is determined to continue to do what it has boasted, professed, and maintained as a policy since its inception, and that is to bring death to America.
I believe that it would be most shortsighted for the president now to accept a further suspension of the only thing that is going to bring an [00:01:00] actual end to this endless war — 47 years of it, arguably going back to Muhammad’s time 1,400 years — and that is a decisive victory.
And that would be possible, I believe, if the pressure is maintained and if we stop the resupply that is taking place with the help of the Chinese, to some extent others, notably the Pakistanis.
I have supported this president. I think he was absolutely right to engage in Epic Fury. I think he was absolutely right to call for the Iranian people to achieve the liberation of their country. I think he’s been absolutely right to blockade the strait. All of those are eminently sensible and necessary measures.
We just need, as your correspondent talked about, to finish the job. And if we do otherwise — if we let the pressure up, if we allow them months more to [00:02:00] rearm, months more to boast about their victory over us, months more to humiliate our country — this doesn’t alter where this is ultimately going to go.
I think the president is going to have to use military force decisively, I believe with Israel, to achieve the only thing that will end the endless war, and that is the defeat, the utter defeat, of the regime in Iran, not its perpetuation.
[00:02:29] Tiffany Meier: And Frank, Treasury Secretary Bessent said that the president wouldn’t even be reviewing a deal unless it included his so-called hard lines. Now, do you think Iran is willing to agree to those on paper, open up the strait and so forth, and then just go back to doing everything they had been doing?
[00:02:47] Frank Gaffney: It’s a certitude that the Iranians will do all of the bad things that they’ve been doing. It is a certitude that they will continue to beaver away at nuclear weapons.
I also think they will try to buy them, for heaven’s sake. They don’t [00:03:00] have to build them from scratch. There are people who will sell them to them.
I think it is absolutely predictable that they will also interfere with traffic in the strait. I mean, they were starting to mine it the other day, for goodness’ sake, and that was during these negotiations. Imagine what they would do afterwards.
The time that we allow them to buy, Tiffany, will be used to make more difficult, more dangerous, and more costly the inevitable steps that you have to take because of the nature of this regime. It is a Sharia-supremacist regime. It is an apocalyptic one at that.
It will not accept anything other than, well, according to their end-times philosophy, the destruction of the world to usher in the golden age of Islam. That’s not the kind of outfit that you want to see stay in business and become bolder and more brazen in their [00:04:00] threats to us.
And by the way, one other detail: every other Sharia supremacist on the planet — jihadis, whatever you want to call them — will be emboldened as well. They’re looking at this as a signal victory for their team, whether they’re Sunni or Shia. They will see it as further evidence of our inevitable defeat, which they believe Allah is going to bless them with. We mustn’t indulge that.
[00:04:27] Tiffany Meier: And Frank, President Trump sounds willing to end the ceasefire himself if terms are no good. Here’s actually what Bessent said today.
[00:04:39] Media clip: Scott Bessent: We are being patient. We do not have unlimited patience. President Trump always prefers a peace deal, so everything we have done thus far has been defensive, and at present, that is what we will continue doing. But if President Trump doesn’t think he can get a peace deal, then kinetic is back—
[00:05:00] Tiffany Meier: Now, Gulf nations squarely in Iran’s line of fire seem to be a key reason for Trump’s insistence on diplomacy for now. What is your advice to Iran’s neighbors?
[00:05:12] Frank Gaffney: I think they’d better get a grip, because an Iranian regime that survives has already demonstrated its willingness to attack them. And it’s not just been bases that we have on their soil. They have gone after desalinization plants and other energy and electric-grid infrastructure.
They will continue to do that if the regime survives. They will do that because this, again, is likely to bring about, in their apocalyptic vision, the ushering in of the golden age with the return of the Mahdi, the Messiah figure.
This is a matter of time, and I’m simply saying to the president, with the greatest [00:06:00] of respect, don’t give the enemy more time. Because when you ultimately have to do what I think he has understood from the very beginning of this episode — eliminate the threat from Iran — it will be harder to do it later.
And will he decide to get out from a ceasefire if he’s not satisfied? Quite possibly. But the pressure on him to perpetuate it will be all the more intense, you can bet on it, especially if it’s still in the run-up to the midterms, when people are telling him, “Oh no, you can’t do that, Mr. President.”
And that, again, will further embolden our enemies and give the Chinese, the Russians, and the Pakistanis, and others, more time to restore and, in fact, greatly enhance the threat we face from Iran.
[00:06:56] Tiffany Meier: A lot at stake, for sure. Frank Gaffney, as always, thank you so much for joining [00:07:00] us.
[00:07:00] Frank Gaffney: It’s a pleasure. Thank you, ma’am.
